Interview with Dr. Cherilyn Sheets Getting to Know this Top Clinician, Educator & Researcher

In this episode of The Ruddle Show, Cliff and Lisette are joined by Dr. Cherilyn Sheets, a prosthodontist from Newport Beach, California, for a Zoom interview. Get to know this top clinician, author, educator, lecturer, researcher, and philanthropist, and find out firsthand what it’s like to be a leader in the dental profession.

Show Content & Timecodes

00:07 - INTRO: Brief Introduction
01:08 - SEGMENT 1: Zoom Interview with Dr. Cherilyn Sheets - Part 1
39:17 - SEGMENT 2: Zoom Interview with Dr. Cherilyn Sheets - Part 2
01:05:51 - CLOSE: Brief Closing Comments

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INTRO: Brief Introduction


Welcome to The Ruddle Show. I’m Lisette, and this is my dad, Cliff Ruddle. How are you doing on this foggy summer morning?


June swoon. I’m doing terrific, and we have a great guest! And it’s going to be interesting, inspiring, and I think you’re all gonna really enjoy the time.


Yes. We recently had the opportunity to interview Dr. Cherilyn Sheets, by Zoom, and we’re gonna show that to you, now, and we’re gonna get right to it. [Music playing]

SEGMENT 1: Zoom Interview with Dr. Cherilyn Sheets – Part 1


We’re joined today by a leader in the dental profession, Dr. Cherilyn Sheets, from Newport Beach, California. She’s an internationally known clinician, educator, researcher, author, lecturer, and also a philanthropist, and also the recipient of numerous awards. Additionally, she’s past President of the American Academy of Aesthetic Dentistry and the American Association of Women Dentists. So we’re really excited to have you here with us today. Thank you for joining us.


Oh, thank you so much for having me. I’ve really been looking forward to this.


Dad, why don’t you tell us how you know Cherilyn?


Well, I don’t know the exact year, but I’m going to be pretty sure it’s the early ‘90s, and I came down and gave a lecture at a group that I think Cherilyn belonged to. It was Carl Reeder’s, the Pacific Coast Society of Periodontics – or Prosthodontics, and I was asked to give a lecture. And I remember, during the break, I was in the restroom, and a guy came in with a bullhorn, and he said, “It’s time to get back in, because, you know – Ruddle! What are you doing in here?!”

So, anyway, I think I might’ve met Cherilyn there, but by 1995, I’d met her, for sure, in Maui, because she was President of the American Association of Aesthetic Dentists. She was a leader in that group. The group – our audience doesn’t know, but maybe we should say that that’s about 100 of the internationally, probably most successful people, the leaders in dentistry, and it’s a very prestigious group. And she’s been in that group for years; she’ll tell us. But anyway, she was President that year, and I met her there. And then, we had dinner together, in the Presidential Suite, which you got probably comped, because the meeting was there.

So, that was a big – that was a wonderful experience that night, in Maui. And then, we’ve met each other at other meetings, in the mountains, in Aspen. And so – at lectures, and things like that.


That’s true. I just wanna make one clarification, okay, in that I was not in the men’s restroom, when you met me.






It was only Carl, with the bullhorn, that was in the restroom! Yeah! [laughs]


[laughs] Okay. Well, let’s start with the early years. How – like, tell us a little bit about your family, where you grew up, and what made you want to get into dentistry.


Oh, okay. Well, I was born and raised in a town close to the LA International Airport, called Inglewood, California. My mom and dad were very involved in the community, and my Uncle Russell Sheets had been a dentist there. He was about 20 years older than my dad, and my dad then followed in his footsteps. And then, Dad was 30 years older than I was, and so, then, I followed in his footsteps –




-- much to his surprise, and also wanted to be a dentist. So, there was over 100 years of Sheets dentistry in the town of Inglewood by the time that Uncle Russell had retired in his 80s. Dad had retired in his 70s, and I had ultimately moved the practice completely down to Newport Beach.


So, did you – were they also prosthodontists?


No, they were general dentists. And then, my mother was – when she was 17 years old, was actually a dental assistant, working for Uncle Russell, when his younger brother, J.B., my dad, came out for a summer, and that’s when Dad first met my mom and was smitten from that point on. And then, I also had an uncle that one of my aunts, my Aunt Nadine, married, Dr. Morey Frankel, who was also a dentist. And then, numerous aunts were office managers, dental assistants, and I just was surrounded by dentistry, my whole life. So when I was 15, I had decided that I wanted to be in dentistry, but I wanted to be the dentist. I didn’t want to be a hygienist, or, you know, anything else.

So, that was a little bit of a shock to my dad. I remember, we were driving to church one Sunday morning, and I said, “Well, I think I know what I wanna be, when I grow up.” And Dad said, “Oh, really! Well, what’s that?” And he was thinking it was gonna be hygienist, and – or hoping, you know, because he thought it was a wonderful profession for a woman, which it is, you know, for anybody, really. And so, I said, “Well, I wanna be a dentist.” And there was this silence [with emphasis] in the car. And I thought, “Ooh, geez!”, you know? I don’t know if he’s that excited about this!”

And then, he said – after a few minutes, he said, “Oh, well, I think that’s a wonderful idea, honey.” And then, my mom, the cheerleader, is going, “Oh, that’s great! I’m so pleased, you know, for you! And I think you’ll be terrific!” It turned out that my dad had a woman in his class at Washington University in St. Louis, and she – or the class ahead of him, and she was treated so terribly that he said, “I will never [with emphasis] allow my wife or a daughter of mine to go to dental school.” So, that all just came rushing back through his head, you know, when I announced, at age 15, you know, I wanted to go to dental school.

But he realized that he just needed to prepare me, you know, that it might have a few rough sledding moments, but he thought that I was really well suited for it. So, in fact, he was very --


I know when – oh, I’m sorry. I know, when I was little, I told my dad that I wanted to also be an endodontist. And do you remember what you told us, Dad? Because Lori, I think, said it, too. You said, “No, you don’t! No, you don’t!” [laughs] He said, “The hours are too long! It’s just – it’s not – you don’t wanna be an endodontist. No, you don’t.” [laughs]


-- [laughs] well, that’s – that’s interesting, because fast forward, when I was a dentist and, you know, I had a really busy practice. And both my mom and dad, who were really [with emphasis] hard-working people, said to me, “Well, we’re really excited you did this, but we didn’t really intend for you to have to work this hard.” But, you know, the – it’s – it is a challenging, wonderful profession, and if you really are all into it, you know, you can put in some pretty long hours. But I’m thrilled I did it. I can’t imagine doing anything else. I love it!


Now you mentioned, when we were talking, before we started the interview, that you started dental school when you were 19. So how did you manage that?


Oh, well, okay. I was young for my grade, anyway. So I started college at 17, and I – I looked at the book, you know, the Barron’s book that you had to study in order to take the DAT exam. And it was three inches thick! And I thought, “Oh, my gosh! I have no idea exactly where to begin with this!” So, I came up with this plan, that I was gonna take the DAT, just for, you know, trial, and I’d see the areas that I failed. And then, I would know those areas that I could study. So that was the plan. So, I went in, totally relaxed. I walked in with no books. I had two number-two pencils you were supposed to take, and I had practiced my chalk carving. And that’s it!

And I went in, then, to meet with the Head of Admissions, because that’s what you had to do, then, at the dental school, to get your scores. And when I sat down with him – I’d already met him once, to let him know that I wanted to go to dental school and so, he went through each of the sections of the test for me. And, you know, they were all good, you know, they were fine. And so, then, I said, “Well, look, I – I know I can do better. I mean, shall I study? I mean, the Committee, will they want me to do better on it?” And he said, “No, I think it’s okay.” And I said, “Well, are you sure!? I mean, I’m willing to, you know, to take this again and try and up my score.” He said, “No, I think it’s okay.”

Little did I know, he was a one-man Admission Committee to the dental school.




He, personally [with emphasis], made every choice. So, I think he – at that point, he thought, “Hey, if she can pass it, she’s one semester into college. You know, I think she’ll do okay.” So, I never even got an interview. So, I was panicked. I thought, “Oh, my gosh! They didn’t even think enough of my application to give me an interview!”

And so, then, on Christmas Eve Day of my sophomore year of college, a letter finally came from the dental school. I was so thrilled! So, I opened it up, expecting to, you know, hear about my interview, and in fact it said, “Congratulations. You’ve been accepted to the class of 1968”, I guess it was. So anyway, I was in! So, [laughs] then, at the bottom, there’s an asterisk, and it says, “But you must complete all of the requirements for entry to dental school [laughs].” Because I still hadn’t taken a lot of the classes.




Dad, that’s a little different than your story, when you had to basically do high school again, at age 17! [laughs]




Well, I didn’t think the interview was about me.


Okay [laughs].


We all – we all have different pathways to get there, right, Cliff?




It was a circuitous route.


[laughs] Okay. Well, why don’t you tell us a little bit about your practice and your partners. It’s a pretty nice location, Newport Beach. And I see that you just – what – like we also wanna know like, what kinds of cases do you see, that kinda thing.


Okay. Well, keep in mind, this has been an evolution over many decades. But I am absolutely thrilled with the practice that we have, with the team that’s there, with my partners, who are just exceptionally talented dentists. And Dr. Jacinthe Paquette and I have been partners for 28 years. Dr. Jean Wu has been a partner with us now for 15, 16 years, something like that. And they are both prosthodontists. Jacinthe’s a Board Certified Prosthodontist. They have very interesting stories on their own, on how they arrived here. But I started my practice in Inglewood, and then, I started seeing patients also, at the same time, in Newport, because we’d had a lot of patients move out of the Inglewood community, down to Orange County.

And I practiced there with Carl Reeder, who was a wonderful mentor to me, and then, set up my own practice, which is where we are now. And so, that was originally 5 operatories, about 2,000 square feet. I didn’t think I would ever have a partner, ever – people kept sayin’, “You’re gonna build this as large as your dad did”, because that was a 4,000-square-foot facility, with 10 operatories. I said – and 25 employees. I said, “Never! I’m never [with emphasis] gonna do that!” Well, we have over 6,000 square feet [laughs]. We’ve got about 28 employees, and a laboratory, you know, within the facility, which also is the area for our teaching institute, our non-profit teaching institute.

And it’s such an incredible way to be able to practice, because of the combined philosophy, you know, that we have, as three partners, and the ability to be able to purchase the technology, you know, that we want in order to help us practice at this level. And I – Cliff, I mean, you know, for me, it was your encouragement and Dennis Shanelec’s to try out the microscope for restorative dentistry, which nobody was doing, and see if there was any efficacy for using it. And it literally was a game changer.

So, there were several game changers for me in my career. Certainly the microscope was one of those. And it just also kept this whole thing that I learned from my dad, which was curiosity, and I’ve always been curious about different things and new technology. And so, it kinda feeds on itself. So right now, you know, we’re pretty technologically committed, you know, between the microscopes, the digital scanning, the – well, I mean, it’s – I mean, you name it, whatever’s going on digitally, we’ve got it. So, I just looked this morning at some data on a patient, because you were asking about the types of patients that we care for, and we get a lot of referrals of patients from other dentists, where it’s just too difficult or too complex to handle within their practice.

And that’s – we gladly take those patients, because we are set up to really handle them with a team that can take care of also the psychological aspects that sometimes come with a patient that’s had a lot of failures in dentistry before. And so, we have a full implant surgical suite, with both Dr. Paquette and Dr. Wu. We’ve got the complete prosthodontic restorative capabilities, and then, we have the laboratory technician team. We have six technicians. They’re world class and only work for us, and they’re in our operatories. So, that’s kinda the general overview. And then, we have a hygiene team of five hygienists that – you know, about a three a day, that keep our maintenance.

The goal is to help each patient achieve their optimal oral health, at the same time, teach them how to maintain that, so that they don’t just destroy it again, and then, move them into maintenance so that, from that point on, they don’t have that major work that they need again. And then, we get some patients that have very minimal needs, and they just heard we were a nice dental office [laughs]. And they show up, and we’re really happy to have them, too!


I know you’re curious, because many years ago, I think it’s about ’95 or so, you came to Santa Barbara. And we wanted to share seminar ideas.




And I’d been doin’ this, I don’t know, since ’83 or something, and of course, you’d already been teaching on the road and stuff. But I think you were thinking about maybe starting the Newport Coast Oral Facial Institute, and that – I want the audience to know, my other daughter and I and my wife, Phyllis, of 52 years, we came down and saw it when it was still – I don’t think Larry Kleinberg, from Global, was done at that time, but we could see the whole footprint, where it was gonna go.


That’s right.


It was so exciting. And then, I wanted the group to know, when she talks about an inside lab, you probably are nodding your head, “Yeah. I’ve heard of that a lot.” But if you’re a member of the AED, and you’re an endodontist, which I was for a while, I was a member. I got kicked out, because my deficiencies slipped down a little bit, and they told me to do remedial work, and I could come back. But anyway –


That’s my group! [laughs]


-- the point – there was world-class people that taught we as dentists, specialists, and they were lab technicians. So, I want the audience to know that, when she says, “internal lab”, she said they were very highly trained, but these people, they’re like artists!


Absolutely! It is such a privilege and a joy to be able to work with our dental laboratory team. And they are with us in the operatory, you know, we’re with them in the lab. They – their input is invaluable, and their artistry, you know, is just untouchable. And that’s what we need, in order to be able to recreate a natural-looking dentition, for people that don’t have that any longer. And it’s – you know, just this whole combination of the engineering, the biomechanics, the biology, the aesthetics, you know, and how it all comes together and works together, is really fun to do! I mean, it’s challenging in some situations, obviously. I’m not gonna say it’s not.

But to be able to end up at the end of the road and just see that patient’s reaction, when they see themselves looking as they had dreamed they could, or maybe even beyond what they dreamed they could, you know, is just a really wonderful feeling for all of us on the, you know, on the team, on the oral health team for ‘em.


I – well, I wanted to ask you a little bit about your practice philosophy, which I notice you have actually written out, on your website. And you had said that your partners share a similar philosophy as you. And I – I just – I really like how you emphasize that you wanna help people, like, get a beautiful smile. But then, you define “beauty” as “replicating and enhancing nature”. So, I think that that was really interesting, because – well, why don’t you just explain more about your practice philosophy.


Okay. Well, if you think in terms of what is really beautiful, and you’re trying to go back to something that looks very natural and kinda the ideal, you’re usually into some proportions, but you’re into a whole vibrancy of the tissues, of the teeth. And that’s what speaks to someone, when they’re looking at you, as being attractive. And so, it’s a little different than the push towards getting whiter, whiter, whiter opaque, which oftentimes in the past was, I think, a goal. And it was thought that that was attractive. And – and it can be, you know, for some people, but really, for most people, you wanna have that look of vital luminescence.

And so, in a natural dentition, when the light hits it, it gets transferred like a fiberoptics rod, up into the tissues, which light up, and everything is – you know, is – looks healthy and attractive. And it’s – you’re not drawn to it, like, “Oh!’ You know, ‘They had their teeth done.” What you’re drawn to is, “Oh, isn’t that an attractive person.” And so, in order to accomplish that, it has to be healthy. So, we always start at the – at the basic foundational level of building structural strength within the teeth and within the tissues, of creating health, getting rid of inflammation in the gum tissues, teaching patients about biofilm and how that’s been the culprit, you know, in causing their disease breakdown, for most people, and how to control that.

And then, when we start actually prepping teeth, it might be, you know, quite a ways down the road. And then, we’re going into an environment that’s been set up so that we can give them the best possible result. So, that’s kind of a little bit of an overview.




I’ve [crosstalk] – oh, go ahead, Dad.


Lisa and I were – I was telling Lisa, “Ask Cherilyn about the distinction in her mind, if any, between cosmetic dentistry and aesthetic dentistry”. Because I think I’m pretty clear about it, but I wanna be careful. Because I was looking in Newport Beach, and I saw that there was cosmetic dentists [laughs]. And I thought, “She’s not a cosmetic dentist! She’s never [with emphasis] been a cosmetic dentist! And she lives in the shadow of Hollywood!” [laughs]


[laughs] So, cosmetic dentistry certainly, you know, brought an emphasis, you know, on aesthetics, which is, you know, is positive. And – but it typically is a term that’s used in general dentistry, for someone who has an interest in veneers and maybe changing a smile and smile design, which also can happen in an aesthetic rehabilitative practice. But one is a general dentistry focus. The other is a prosthodontist specialty focus. And so, I kind of grandmothered into the prosthodontic field, thanks to Carl Reeder, and learned the disciplines, which really changed my entire trajectory of my personal practice and was able to enter that way. Roy Yanase, I think you know, Cliff, said one time, he goes, “You’re a dinosaur”, he says [laughs], “because you entered prosthodontics, you know, the way where they grandfathered people in.”

And it was such a wonderful opportunity, you know, for me to practice with Carl, who was renowned internationally at the time, you know, for his prosthodontic work. So – but it’s different. It’s different than general dentistry. You have a concept that’s more of a systems analyst approach to oral health. So, I had to learn to change my initial examination of my patient, from something where, you know, you were going in and just doing a look at what needed to be done restoratively, and then, you would maybe layer on a perio problem that the hygienist was highlighting to you or – and then, maybe they needed endo, and I’d send them over to you, Cliff, to – you know, to get that taken care of.

But with the prosthodontic approach, you know, you have a very comprehensive examination, before you begin anything. And it – our comprehensive exams take about two hours. And so, we are going through perio, we’re doing oral cancer exam. We then go in with a Bell scope to do the more high-tech oral cancer exam. We do an occlusal TMJ examination, which really sets you up, because you start to see, “Well, my goodness! There’s a cracked tooth on this side.” And when the patient’s sweeping over into lateral, going the other direction, they’re putting really [with emphasis] heavy forces. And that’s gonna be the next tooth that cracks. And then, you finally get to the dental part of the examination.

And now, because – and things start to make sense. You immediately already start understanding where ultimately that patient needs to go. So, we have a chart that allows us to do a five-tier diagnostic system. By that, I mean, phase one, you know, is gonna be in this one box. And there’s actually five boxes going up our sheet. And then I can say to my dental assistant, who’s acting as a human scribe on this, that box one is gonna be [laughs], you know, a composite, but box three is – because I’m really using it as a build-up, is going to be a porcelain onlay or a porcelain veneer onlay or a – maybe a crown would be the next box up, in case there wasn’t enough structural strength.

So, it allows you to lay out quickly not only the immediate needs for that patient that are presenting, but also where you think they need to go, long-term. So then, that enters the next phase of treatment, where they are going to be taught how to clean their mouth, taking care of all emergency needs. If they say, “Oh, but I’m interested in this one crown here”, but you know they need much more work, you can go in and do a provisional crown, because we have some laboratory technicians that can make that look really lovely, and that’s gonna take care of their emotional need but not commit them financially to something that would be ill advised, when they actually need more.


I’ll just say to the audience, Cherilyn’s provisionals, the patients beg to never have ‘em removed. [laughs]




Because, Lisette, they – the provisionals – with this kind of an interdisciplinary treatment approach, she can stabilize people for months or probably a couple years. And I’ve seen your work, I’ve seen your lectures, I’ve seen Winter and all these people of the AED. They can wear those, because they have good methodology and stuff, they can wear ‘em for quite a while, and they’re still discovering and learning.


Yes, it’s – it’s a wonderful treatment aid, you know, to be able to do that, and to allow the patient’s knowledge base – we call it the Dental IQ, you know, to allow that Dental IQ to be increased by their constant recalls. We try and bring most of our patient base in every 12 weeks for hygiene appointments. It keeps ‘em healthier. I think our whole practice has healthier periodontically, because of this, and it also allows us to constantly be educating them on at least an every-three-month basis.


So, is what I’m – I’m hearing about – back to your practice philosophy, is that it’s not just about going in and getting this one crown fixed that you don’t like or getting your teeth whiter. It’s like a whole – a whole-person approach to oral health. I’m hearing words like “vitality”, “inner glow”, “health”, like, so, it’s more just about treating the whole person, so that they can get the beauty that is natural.


Yes. I mean, I think that that’s very accurate. And if the patient really only has a simple need, fabulous! You know, we’ll take care of that, and then, you know, make sure that they’re on a healthy lifestyle, in order to maintain it.


Are there a lot of people like that, that are already [laughs] – like, they’re thinkin’ they just have one thing they want fixed? [laughs]


Yeah. There are some, you know, but we do get some that have had decades of dentistry done by different dentists, different technicians, different times, that are on different schedules of wearing down. And so, for those types of patients, to be able to take a comprehensive approach and try and get everything so that it’s stable and now has a time clock that’s consistent, it oftentimes can take them, you know, throughout their life.


Okay. Well, let’s now move on to the research you’re doing, because my dad actually was particularly interested in that. Why don’t you take it a little bit, Dad, and ask Cherilyn what you want to know.


It’ll take me about 30 minutes to get to the question.






I first was aware of Cherilyn’s work in damage detection in dentistry, actually, years ago. And she probably doesn’t know it, but she does know she published. So, I read articles. I didn’t call her. And then, I saw live lectures a couple times. And the reason this is fascinating to me as an endodontist, because we have horizontal and vertical root fractures. We have coronal fractures. We have fractures that are incomplete, into the pulp. So, it’s a – it sometimes can be called “the diagnostic dilemma”, and we do transillumination, we have microscopes, we stain. But a lot of teeth are heavily restored, so those are kinda out the window.

So, I was listening very carefully, because what she’ll be telling us shortly is, we have a device that you can bite on, Periometer, Periometer [with different pronunciation]. Anyway, it’s going to take data, and that data’s gonna go into a computer. And where I got really fascinated is with this guy named Dennis Kwan from UC Irvine. And her other person she’ll talk about is James Earthman. But both are at UCI, which is a prestigious engineering school. And what Kwan does is, he – in his artificial intelligence, I got locked in, because I got ideas for endo, beyond what Cherilyn was doing, because there’s other ways we could use it.

But by taking thousands and thousands of pieces of data, finally, the machine begins to get trained. And as the training continues, it can begin to differentiate and make distinctions between different kinds of fractures. So, Cherilyn, I think you’re sitting on something that is going to change the way we see and practice dentistry. We’re going to treatment plan for less surprises, and we’re gonna make critical decisions, because we can make distinctions. Was it this, that, or the other? So, could you tell us a little bit about this in your work.


Oh, sure. I’m smiling, because I’m just so excited that you captured, you know, all of this and that it was so relevant to you, because that’s something that, you know, we’ve really felt was critical. So, as a restorative dentist, I think that the challenge for all of us, you know, whether, you know, it’s in prosthodontics or whether it’s in general dentistry or whether it’s in endodontics, is to – is to really know what the structural stability is of a tooth or an implant. And really, you know, we’re always dependent – and this is something that Jim Earthman taught me. In dentistry, everything we have been doing is visually based. And so, we got connected together because of something I’d noticed in the operatory, when it had natural teeth and dental implants, you know, connected together, which was not a good idea.

But anyway, when Jim and I wrote – after we wrote our first paper on how to reverse intrusion, he said, “We need to come up with a way to prove our hypothesis.” So, we were looking for some way to measure shock absorption or something, you know, like that, in the mouth. And there really wasn’t anything. So, he invented this research unit called the Periometer, which lightly taps, you know, on the tooth and gives us back some data. And we were just looking at overall mobility. What we didn’t realize, until we got into this more, you know, it’s kinda like going down – Alice, going down the rabbit hole, and then finding more and more things, you know? [laughs]

What we didn’t realize was that we were getting multiple kinds of data out of the software that Jim invented. And this other data also showed us movement in a localized way. Now, this localized movement really was – it – because what we do is, we pick up micro movement. What it was, was pieces that were touching each other, which is cracks. So, if you have a restoration that’s cracked, which was the first time we realized we could do this, you’re gonna pick up on the graph part, which is called an “energy return graph”, instead of this bell-shaped curve, all of a sudden, you’ve got this little extra blip in it. And so, we were going, “What is that?”

And then, we realized we could pick up cracks in – you know, in restoration. Well, then, as we started doing more and more teeth, because we were originally looking at implants, when we started looking at more and more teeth as, quote, controls, we started saying, “My goodness! These graphs are all over the place!” So, then, we started focusing on that and found out we were picking up loose restorations, which is a crack between the restoration and the tooth, and we were picking up cracks in teeth. And so, there’s vertical cracks, there’s oblique cracks, there’s horizontal cracks.

And so then, it was like, “Well, can we really tell the difference?” So, this shape of the graph, this raw data, became more and more critical. And then most recently, kinda fast forwarding decades, Dennis Kwan, who actually is at North Carolina, he’s Emeritus there, he started getting into what we could do with this data, which we thought, at the time, “Gee, we’ve got a lot of data.” And then, once we started working with him, we realized, “We don’t have near [with emphasis] enough data!”


A little short on your data!




Exactly! Because now, with big data, you need thousands and thousands and thousands of sites. So, we have been -- for a number of years now, been dissecting – well, testing with the Periometer, so we know what the reading is, and then, dissecting the tooth, which is disassembly, under the microscope, so we can focus and record everything that we’re finding, and then, marking that down, and then, sending it in to them, so that they can start seeing how the shapes of the graphs change with different issues and problems. So, our goal is – because we’re already starting to identify different things, the loose crown, you know, what does that look like, and obviously, what we want is, you know, the vertical crack.

Because the coronal, oblique cracks, we can treat, restoratively and endodontically. But it’s those vertical cracks, you know, that are the real problems for all of us. So, that’s what we’re looking at, and we’re starting – we’ve got a system that Dennis has created with our Data Acquisition Team. We actually now have a Data Acquisition Team of four PhD’s, five PhD’s, that are all working on this now –




-- and developing software and algorithms that can not only diagnose, but our goal is that we can predict.

So, we’ll be able to test a tooth and say with 95 percent accuracy, “We feel that this is a vertical crack”, or with, you know, 87 percent accuracy, “We think that it is a coronal crack”, and with 90 percent accuracy, “We feel that it’s a loose crown.” Because you may have two things going on at once, or three things going on at once, and that’s part of what’s been so complex, because in dentistry, you oftentimes have multiple things going on, in one site. You got a loose post that’s got a crown that’s uncemented, and by the way, it’s been torqueing, and so, you’ve got a vertical crack in the root. So, anyway, those are the more sophisticated things we’re working on, right now.


For the audience, Cherilyn and I got into a little email, very brief, because we’re too busy to do this that way. But endodontists, our plague was, “Is the crack coronal apical and its component, or is it apical coronal?” And we won’t explain all that today, but for us as endodontists, it has something to do with occlusal loads versus maybe spreader or plugger loads, deep in a root during obturation. Cherilyn, this is thrilling, and I guess if you had more of these out in test sites, and then, maybe it’s for sale, could all these devices send information to a central area, where now the data begins to be massive?


That is exactly [with emphasis] the plan, Cliff. You are just right on target. We are hoping that what -- we are ready to send in all of our data to the FDA from a five-site, six-clinician validation study of the work that we had done, you know, in our center. And the results have come back exactly where we wanted ‘em. They’re – we’re exactly thrilled with this. So, we’ll be putting everything in with our application for this software program that can help us diagnostically and predictably.

And then, we have plans that next year, we will be releasing the units that can be used in the dental offices. And those will have the capability of transferring the data, encrypted, so that the patients, you know, are completely anonymous and protected for HIPAA, to the Cloud, which will then go into our Data Acquisition Team, so that we can start building up this huge amounts of data that we need, in order to constantly keep redefining our capabilities, our diagnostic capabilities and predictive capabilities. So, you were --


So, can we say --


-- right on target!


-- serendipity is when good things happen by accident?


Yes! Yes, that’s exactly true! We’ve had many of those instances, along the way that have gotten us to this point. There’ve been times over the decades where I feel like we’ve got this huge boulder that we’re pushing up the mountain, you know, to get through FDA, all that. But honestly, we have, during the process, just kept refining this and coming up, and when I look at what – where we are today versus when we started this project, it’s absolutely thrilling.


And how long have you been working on this project?


Well, that’s the part that most people hear. And then, they go, “Oh, no!” But I first met Jim Earthman 27 years ago, and we just thought we had a little science project, and we were gonna, you know, write a paper on it. And at first, we were just kind of going from one experiment to another. And he’d say, “Oh, I got some students. Let’s do this.” And then, we were getting to the point where we realized that I was – I was dependent upon this, and if the – if the unit broke down, because they were all handmade, I’d be callin’ the university and saying, “Jim, you gotta get over here right away and fix this! You know, because we’ve got a patient coming in, and we need it!”

And so, I thought, “Okay. We’ve gone as far as we can.” And so, I called a good friend, Robert Hayman, who had started a company in dentistry called Discus Dental, and he had just sold the company. And I said, “Robert, would you just take a look at this and see if you think we have something that’s valuable? And if you think that, what the next steps should be?” And so, he came down, and we went through our whole dog-and-pony show with him. And at the end, he said, “I really think that this is a game changer for dentistry, and I wanna be a partner with you.” And so, the three of us have been working on it, ever since.


That’s especially [crosstalk] --


When it – when will it be available?


We think – our projected date for release is this next year. So, first or second quarter of ’21.


-- so, you’ve been using it in your office. You – you use it regularly.


I use it – I use it constantly. I’ve been using it in the office for over 10 years. So that really helped build our database. And I – I now include it as part of every examination, and every time, before I prepare a tooth, I have a new reading on it, so that I know what to expect and what to look for as I disassemble the tooth. And then, I document through the microscope what I’m finding, because that way, when we know, going forward, we know what that tooth site had, as far as damage. You know, it’s really funny, particularly in the type of work we do, where maybe you have a whole mouth now that is – after restoration, looks like, “Oh, you have a bunch of perfect teeth!”

But the reality is, they’re not [with emphasis] all the same. Some are much more compromised than others. And so, even after we finish, we test all the teeth and let the patient know, so they can see where their vulnerable spots are. And that makes them much more compliant with the preventative things that we’re doing, wearing a night guard, don’t chew ice, don’t chew gum, things that overly stress, you know, the teeth and the dentition. And it allows us to get much more longevity and health out of anything that we do.


-- well, Lisa –




-- will tell you that every Ruddle Show is supposed to do three things. It’s supposed to inspire people. It’s supposed to make ‘em laugh a little bit. And they’re supposed to learn. So, I’m saying directly to the audience, this is one of the things that, for my whole career, almost 50 years now, has been a diagnostic dilemma, fractures! You just heard fracture diagnostics and prognostics is better! It’s coming!


[laughs] It’s coming.

SEGMENT 2: Zoom Interview with Dr. Cherilyn Sheets – Part 2


[Music playing] I wanted to move on and talk to you a little bit about the Newport Coast Oral Facial Institute, your – is that – that’s your training center?


Yes, it’s our non-profit educational and research center. So, we do training for clinicians on how to use the microscope. Dr. Jean Wu has taken over the lead, you know, on all of that training with the faculty. And I just wanna give a shout out to our faculty, because none of them are compensated for doing this. This is just a labor of love, to help clinicians see the power of using the microscope, not only for their patients, in improving the quality of their personal care, but also in improving the quality of their own personal health, because of the ergonomics and sitting up rather than being bent over, like all of us had to learn how to do in dental school. So, that’s the educational part. And then we also have the research component, which you’ve been hearing about.


Is that on the – at the same location as your practice?


It is, actually.


It’s all part of the 6,000 --


Yeah. Yeah. We’re – we have over 1,000 square feet that is our dental laboratory, where all of our technicians are. But all of the benches and work areas there are changeable, so that, when we’re doing our courses, we remove all of the dental cases that we’re currently working on and then, mannequin heads go right in. And so, each person’s seat has a microscope, the mannequin head, the high-speed handpieces, and everything they would need to create the operatory experience, without any of the tension and stress of trying to learn how to do this kind of dentistry on a real, live patient.

And that was the way that Jacinthe and I had to learn to use the microscope. You know, they just basically brought ‘em in, and here you were doing these complex things, and you’re trying to learn how to work with the microscope. And I remember Dennis Shanelec said to us one time, when we were up in Santa Barbara, he goes, “Now that you’ve learned how to do this, you need to figure out how you can teach someone else to do this, in a much shorter time period.” So that was the focus of our putting together the way that we were gonna teach this microscope course for restorative dentistry. And we broke it down into segments, so they could start with just hand-held teeth they could move all around, which you, of course, couldn’t do in the mouth, and just get used to the spinning burrs, you know, the higher magnification, all the things that are encompassed, you know, in working at this kind of a high speed with a spinning handpiece. [laughs]

And then, we’d move into the mannequins, and then, we’d move into mirror work. And so, we figured out, at the end of the first day, some people at the end of the – half of the first day, they’re still maybe a little bit disoriented. But by the end of the first day, they’re feeling pretty comfortable. But it’s that sleeping overnight and bringing them back after the neural pathways have been established, and having them have that second day, that it really locks in. And it was equivalent to about six months of on-the-job training that we did.




And then, we thought sometimes maybe we should do a third [laughs] day, but we realized by the third day, everybody was fried. And so, it was not that effective. So, two days tended to be the best.


I wanna say one thing to our audience. I had the first microscope on the West Coast. I wasn’t the first in the country. There were some guys on the East Coast. But I never acknowledged Cherilyn publicly, but I – there was no books. I’m talkin’ about the introduction of the microscope in her practice and mine. When I got my microscope, in ’87, there were no textbooks, there were no journals, there were no teachers, there was nothing. Okay?




There was one article by Apotheker in the early ‘80s that was 3 pages, and it said he uses a microscope. Okay. [claps]




Well, when I started using my microscope, there were a lot of indignities.




Things took longer. I struggled. But I could never, ever go back, because I –




-- could do things I’d never done before! So, how I wanna acknowledge Cherilyn, just like your pop, Lisa, had to struggle and learn, she had to take these – because I told Shanelec about it, I brought him over to the office, Global went in there. Well, that’s perio! That’s a whole different deal! Suturing and stuff, we suture, but still, it’s different. Then Cherilyn, you know, we’re workin’ on a tooth, we have a rubber dam on! Cherilyn’s working from here to here! She’s doing quadrant dentistry in your focal field and all that.

Anyway, I just really wanna acknowledge you, because there were no people you [with emphasis] could go and train from, because you were the first, I imagine, on the whole West Coast, for probably, in your field. So, you have now gone on to train hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of people to enjoy the power of vision, and vision is magnification plus lighting. So that’s a pioneer, right there.


Oh, well, thanks. Listen, you were the pioneer. And we just always so greatly appreciated, both Jacinthe and I, the way that you were so supportive and encouraging of us to do this, because like for you, it was tough sledding at first. But I remember, I had finished my first experience, when I said, “Okay. I – this – I gotta – I’m gonna have to master this, somehow.” I had finished a course on veneer prep, and I thought it looked pretty nice, you know. I mean, I would’ve taken a picture of it and published on it. And then, I grabbed the microscope, and I pulled it over, and I looked through it, and I thought, “Oh! Well, there’s this tiny little, tiny blip here. I’ll polish that.”

So, I picked it up for the first time, had the handpiece, and realized how I had to slow it down, but how much more control I started having. And I just kinda dinked around, you know, and said, “Yeah. Now that looks like what I thought it did.” And I took the microscope away, and I looked at it, and I thought, “This is the best work I’ve ever done.” And that was it! I thought, “I’m gonna have to – gonna have to do this.”

And for Jacinthe, she came down the hall one time, and she says, “Come here. You’ve got [with emphasis] to see this!” And I went, “Okay.” So, I went in, and there was five-unit, gold, you know, porcelain bridge that Carl Reeder had done years earlier. And there was a distal furcal involvement that was impossible to see. But with the microscope, the patient tipped back, the mirror, you could see this whole thing. And she could go in, cleaned it out beautifully, placed a little composite repair, and the guy went to the grave with this bridge. So, we looked at each other, and we said, “We need to master this.” And that – that’s what really locked us into it.

And it – having her there I think also was help. I wasn’t just isolated, but we were in on it as a team, and both realized how much we had to do. And then, we’re able to lecture together, teach classes together, and it was amazing, because we never advertised! We never did anything! And all of a sudden, you’d have someone from, you know, Tennessee. And then, you’d have someone from Spain. And you’d have someone [laughs] from local. And you’d – you’d have these little classes, with people from all over the world. But it was – you know, it was an interesting, fun time, you know, to kinda get it started.


Yeah. To hear you talk about it, it sounds a lot like when my dad talks about it, like just being, you know, on the front lines, kind of, like, of the whole microscope thing. It’s interesting.




I wanted to ask you a little bit – like, I heard from my dad when we were setting this all up that you had just finished remodeling your office when all of a sudden COVID-19 hit. And did you guys stop seeing patients? And did the remodels you made to your office, have they proved to be helpful now? Like, what – have you had to change your protocols?


Well, I mean, you – you’ve absolutely captured what happened. We had decided, towards the end of last year, that even though things still looked nice, that in fact the wear and tear was starting to show on the equipment, as far as its functioning. And also, some of the cabinetry, once again, the team has been so good about maintaining everything, but the drawers weren’t working as well, and we had things that had been designed for water baths that we weren’t using anymore. And so, we thought, “You know what? It’s time!”

So, we literally bit the bullet, took out this big loan from Bank of America, gutted out the five main operatories in the front, over the Christmas break, because we took two weeks off, put in all new A-dec equipment in all eight operatories. And then, once we got back, we would close down the two operatories on different weekends and everything, and then, we would get all the cabinetry changed in those final three. So, we finished everything, the second week in March. And then, March 16th [laughs], we had to close down!






And we’re sittin’ here going, “Oh, my gosh!” We just went from, you know, normal production, which – it’s a very busy office, you know, with the three hygienists and three dentists and a treatment coordinator, oral health educator, all working, to nothing!


But you still had your note!


Yes. [laughs] Yes, exactly! So, anyway, I mean, it all – everybody was stunned, but we went immediately into problem-solving mode. So, Jacinthe and my dental assistant, Brian, became the emergency team. And they would go in and handle, you know, any emergencies that needed to be done. And we, of course, started with all of the applications for PPE money and E-IDEAL money and, you know, got all of that taken out, contacting every single one of our employees, made sure that everybody was financially – gonna be stable. And then, we started figuring out what we were gonna have to do, in order to keep our patients and our team and our doctors safe. And so, nobody really was saying anything.

So, we just took the same approach we took during AIDS. You know, during AIDS, I said to everybody, “We have to assume every single person has it, every doctor, every staff member, every patient. And you protect for that.” And that’s when we put in the Universal Standard of Care. So we realized, with this, it was more contagious. And so, we had to move from Universal Standard to Transmittable Standard of Care. And so then, it was like, “All right. What do we need to do, in order to accomplish that?” And so, we had a game plan already by April 13th, and Dentistry Today had asked us to share that, you know, with their readership. And so, we had everything completed, and we sent that in.

So, it meant adding on other layers. So in retrospect, it was a blessing that we had just remodeled the office, because we didn’t have to worry about equipment or the cabinetry or any of that. But then, we instituted foggers, so that we – you know, because the hypochlorous acid fog kills off virus within 15 seconds. We have protocols for the rooms that have been changed, the way that we appoint patients. So, for instance, the hygiene schedule, hygienists were staggered at 15 minutes, so that we weren’t having patients coming all at once. We added an extra 10 minutes to every hygiene program, in order to take care of all the additional protocols that needed to be put in place, charts being covered, everything having disposable wipes or being covered with disposable things.

Then a team comes in and wipes down the entire operatory, before the next patient comes in. So there’s 15 minutes between each patient. And that meant we dropped one patient per day, but we were able then to spread things out and then, also stagger lunches for everybody. So then, with the doctors, we were trying to see, also, you know, how we were gonna work that out. And so, we just put in 15 minutes between each patient. And for us, I mean, there are days where we have one patient, you know, with the doctor all day, that’s sedated. So that’s a little bit easier, in some ways, to handle, because you have one area that’s contaminated.

Then, we have gone to scrubs. Scrubs has been something that I never really embraced, because I felt people weren’t using them really appropriately, to protect with sterility, because they’d wear them in the office, out of the office, grocery shopping [laughs]. So, we’ve changed, and we took part of our – luckily, we have a large storage area, and we took things out of that and threw out and completely reorganized and created changing stations, with all of the PPE in it. So, the employees could come in, they could get their scrubs, they could put them on, they – you know, we gave – made training videos on hand washing and, you know, the proper application of all of the things that they needed.

So that all had to be taken care of. So, by the time we were now at mid-May, we brought the full team back, even though we weren’t seeing patients full time, in order to be able to try – have trial days, with trial days with the hygienists, with the new scheduling, the patients. We’ve got access to a stairway that was right by our door, to go in -- we’re on the second floor, for those that didn’t wanna go through lobbies and elevators. Everybody has to wear a mask. We have temperatures taken twice a day on all employees, temperatures taken on patients, every time they walk in.

And some fun, little things, like there’s little masks that have the glasses built into ‘em, that protects their nose, while they’re being worked on. Isolates to pull – Isolites to pull aerosols out, and no Cavitron for hygiene, only hand scaling. So just all of those kinds of changes had to be put in place. So, we started testing that, second week in May. June, we went back to see how we could incorporate more, you know, full-time work. And that’s going well. And we’re hoping by July that we’ve figured, you know, all of the details out and that we’re back. So, we’re probably over 75, maybe 80 percent, right now, of what we were, before.

And – but, you know, you have to always realize, we had three months of closure, you know, and there’s always things in the pipeline, when you’re working full-time, that just stopped, dead stopped! I’ve never experienced anything like that in that career. And so, it’s a matter of then just getting the pump primed again and getting back to what you were doing. But everybody feels comfortable. The staff says they feel safe. They feel safer there, than anyplace else, which is good. And the patients have said the same thing, that they really appreciated the level of care that we’ve gone, and I think that that’s maybe – certainly dentistry’s goal is that we just want everyone to feel that they’re in a safe environment, because certainly, I don’t know any other place of either medical care or social interaction that has as many protections in place as dentistry does.


Well, maybe, Cherilyn, if you agree, we can – in the show notes, we can post your article, so that the dentists can benefit from your systems and structures?


Oh, absolutely! I mean, we would love to share that with anybody that could find it useful.




Yeah. Because if I was a patient going to your office, after everything you’ve just described, I would feel, like, “Wow! They actually have a system in place. I’m gonna be fine. I feel confident.” I mean, I think people wanna see – because I’ve been to another office during this time, and the receptionist wasn’t wearing a mask, and it just seemed like they really didn’t have a plan. So, your office sounds like there’s definitely [with emphasis] protocols in place, and I would feel secure going there, from what you just described.


Well, good. That’s exactly [with emphasis] the response we want in every patient and staff member. So listen, if we can help other people put together their plan that’s appropriate for their office, you know, we’re really happy to help. And the article – the article has all kinds of links they can go to, to give ‘em the background that they need.


Okay. Thanks.


Yeah. We also – we did a show on COVID-19. It was called “The Way Forward”. And we talked a lot about Gordon Christensen. Like, he had a – quite a clear plan in place for, like, how to move forward. So --


Yeah. Well, Gordy’s fabulous. I mean, he’s been a --


Well, Cherilyn, you know, and Gordon and myself, I – I mean, we’re not as – I guess he’s probably a decade older than us. I don’t know. But we’re up there. Definitely, we’re on the back nine in golf.


-- what do you mean [crosstalk]


He [crosstalk] – he talked about AIDS and MERS and SARS and Zika and H1N1, and we’ve kind of – the older dentists have lived through those eras. Oh, but your vac systems. Did you have to put in any purification systems?


-- yes. Yes, we – I – we purchased 21 Molekule units, and we brought them all over the office. So, in each of the operatories, we have two. We have a large one, and we have a small one, which is way overkill. But, you know, we’re creating aerosols, so that’s okay. We don’t care. So – and they have a boost section. And so, there’s many different purification systems that are out there, but this one was very stylish looking and with the boost, which you can put on, it’s a little noisy, but they all are. But it really clears the air out.


But it screams, “We’re clean!”


Yes, it does. And we are [with emphasis], you know? So, it’s a double positive.




Okay. I just wanna finish by – I didn’t wanna skip this, but I want you to tell us a little bit about the Children’s Clinic, in Inglewood.


Oh, okay. Well, as you heard, my family all started there. I was born, you know, just a few blocks away from my family home. And my dad had built his dream practice, which was right across the street from the home. So, I practiced there with Dad for, actually, 20 years, even though part of that was in Newport, and part of that was in Inglewood. And then, after he had his stroke, it just became really difficult for me to kinda be in both places. And we wanted to do something to give back to the community. And ultimately, what came out of all of that was a Children’s Dental Center, set up for children of working poor parents, which, at that time, 90 percent had no coverage at all, in California.

So, it was just a area where someone treated them for free, or they went without treatment, and most of them went without treatment. So, we set it up to be very much patterned after the prosthodontic practice, very heavily oriented towards preventive care, and then, you know, fixing whatever their problems were, but teaching them how to prevent it in the future, and trying to educate the family that this was the best economic way that they could deal with oral health for their entire family. So, five years after we said – we gutted the office that Mom and Dad had built. We raised a million dollars and rebuilt it into a state-of-the-art center. This is now 30 years ago.

And then, five years later, we took the home that Mom and Dad built, that was across the street, and we did the same thing with that and turned it into the Shannon Kelly Toothfairy Cottage, which was an educational center for the parents and the children, and had the – you know, Dr. Hygiene’s, you know, Laboratory, and we had the kitchen, which was Aunt Dottie’s Kitchen. That was my mom’s nickname. And – which nobody ever understood, because her name was Muriel [laughs]. And then, we had, you know, all kinds of set-ups. But it was – it was very homey, and it just allowed them to bring kids over from schools and get education. So, we would have busloads of kids coming. So --


Are your parents alive?


-- my – both my parents now are deceased.


Okay. I was wondering if they were homeless.


They’ve been – they – huh? [laughs] No, they’re not homeless.


Well, you took the practice, you took the house!


I know! Yeah! At that time, they were now living in Newport Beach [laughs], close to us, so we could handle their medical problems, yeah. No, we kicked ‘em out on the curb and said, “Sorry! We have a higher use for your home.”




But Dad, at the time this all happened, had had a pretty devastating stroke. But for him to see and for her to see that this was given another life that could help people, you know, was really great. So –


And so [crosstalk]


-- I’m not – I’m not on the Board any longer, but of course, we’re still interested and wanna see this successful. But just got photographs from Dennis Young, Dr. Dennis Young, who is the CEO for the Center, and they just repainted everything. When we did our remodel of the office, we – Patterson was just an incredible gift, took all of our A-Dec equipment, refurbished everything, and put it all in the Children’s Dental Center.




So now, like, they’ve got, you know, new equipment again, because they were really in need of an upgrade. And then, the UCLA dental students have been providing a lot of the care. So, even though I originally had SC, UCLA, and Loma Linda that were coming in and contributing care, it’s now predominantly UCLA. So, Dennis had everything painted blue and yellow --




-- in the operatories. And then –


No more Trojans!


-- right. But he is from SC. So, he said he took his private office and painted it purple and gold [laughs].






So, we are hoping that we can get up to see, you know, what they’ve done. So, they always can use help. So, if anybody wants to make a donation to the Children’s Dental Center, which they are now changing the name to the Community Dental Center, I think, because they realized that, with the changes in insurance, even though it’s all, you know, at a lower pay, that some of the children, you know, have options. But if they treat the whole family, they get a better result. So, they’re taking care of some of the parents and the children at the same time now.






Lisette is a ferocious Lakers fan, and you keep saying Inglewood, and I can’t help but think about the Forum.




So, have you ever gone to a game, and did you live in the presence of the – that was a state-of-the-art building, still is.


Yes. Yes. Actually, that is six blocks away from the Children’s Dental Center, and we are – when you look down Buckthorn Street, the Children’s Dental Center is at the corner of Buckthorn and Larch, actually in a residential area. Dad had to get a one-time zoning variance in order to build the dental practice there. And when you look down the street, you look straight at the new football facility that is being –




-- I mean, you see it just, you know, kind of being developed --


Straight from the ashes! [laughs]


-- up from the ashes. Up from the ashes.


Oh, it’s a – anybody that’s flyin’ into LAX, I mean, it’s right on the glide path.


Well, you were flyin’ right over my home [laughs]. Because we ended up under the flight pattern.


Well, I think that’s about all we have time for, Dad, but did you wanna ask Cherilyn anything else? I have actually one question.


Go ahead.


So, if you could just get – what advice would you give to young female dental students, right now?


I think the advice that I would give them is to realize that they are so lucky to have chosen a profession that will allow a female to go to whatever heights they wanna go to, that you do not have to have a glass ceiling, that you can choose your own way. And I know right now, based upon what people have shared with me, that a lot of the message that dental students are getting today is that you need to just go into corporate dentistry and that private practice is something in the past, and that it can’t be that successful. And for women, that it’s impossible to really have a family life and then, also, have a career.

And I just wanna tell you, there’s three of us women who do work hard! You know, you have to make that decision that you want to, you know, have a career, not a job. And if you do, you have unlimited possibilities, still today, in a field that is so needed and so gratifying. And I would say, you know, choose what you want, and then, just work towards it.


Do you have anything else?


I guess my final statement would be something to play off of Cherilyn. For all the audience out there, guys and gals alike, you can see she was a practitioner, and she loved it, and she was passionate. So, that kinda reminds me of myself. But for those out there, she’s way more than a dentist. Dentists – she’s an entrepreneur, and one of her enterprises is dentistry. But she wove in the publications. But when she’s publishing, it’s helping in her practice. So, I’m talking about the synergism. When she started inventing, because she had curiosity, because clinically she was being challenged by fractures of different kinds, she went after it! And all of a sudden, she’s publishing! She’s inventing! So, then, there’s a children’s clinic!

So, I wanna encourage everybody out there, you don’t have to be – God didn’t put you on this earth to sit chairside in four walls, your whole life. You can do a lot. And I’m really proud of Cherilyn. She’s a fabulous [with emphasis] clinician, and whether she’s a woman or a man --




-- I just found my new dentist!




Thank you so much for joining us, because I actually feel really lucky to have met you and to be able to ask you these questions. I mean, it’s a great interview. Thank you very much.


Oh, thank you! I mean, this was really fun, and I have loved your dad for many years and just admired so much all that he’s contributed to dentistry. And also, your family, and your family unit, it just reminds me so much of the love that we have within our family, too. And I think that that is really something to treasure, for all of us. So, it – this has been fun. Thank you for asking me to do it!


Thank you, Cherilyn.


Thank you.

CLOSE: Brief Closing Comments


[Music playing] Well, that was an informative interview and a lot of fun, too.


Absolutely. I think we just barely got a little glimpse of a really, really remarkably great dentist. In fact, that was a great example of how to create success by design.


We originally planned to have our segment, “What Phyllis Thinks” now, but the interview ran a little long, and we didn’t wanna cut any of it, because we loved it so much. So, we’re moving “What Phyllis Thinks” to our next show. So, see you next time on The Ruddle Show.


Image Gallery: Select Screenshots of NCOFI, Perimetrics LLC & TCDC


The content presented in this show is made available in an effort to share opinions and information. Note the opinions expressed by Dr. Cliff Ruddle are his opinions only and are based on over 40 years of endodontic practice and product development, direct personal observation, fellow colleague reports, and/or information gathered from online sources. Any opinions expressed by the hosts and/or guests reflect their opinions and are not necessarily the views of The Ruddle Show. While we have taken every precaution to ensure that the content of this material is both current and accurate, errors can occur. The Ruddle Show, Advanced Endodontics, and its hosts/guests assume no responsibility or liability for any errors or omissions. Any reproduction of show content is strictly forbidden.

DISCLOSURE: Please note that Dr. Ruddle has received royalties on and/or continues to receive royalties on those products he has designed and developed. A complete listing of those products may be found at

Watch Season 11


s11 e01

Delving Deeper Again

Financial Investing, the Tooth or Implant, Accessing & Flashing Back


s11 e02

Artificial Intelligence & Disassembly

Differentiating Between AI Systems & Paste Removal


The Ruddle Show

Commercial Trailer S11

Watch Season 10


s10 e01

Delving Deeper

Progressive Tapers & DSO Troubles


s10 e02

The Dark Side & Internal Resorption

The Resilon Disaster & Managing Internal Resorptions


s10 e03

Advanced Endodontic Diagnosis

Endodontic Radiolucency or Serious Pathology?


s10 e04

Endo History & the MB2

1948 Endo Article & Finding the MB2


s10 e05

Collaborations & Greatness

Crown Removal vs. Working Through & Thermal Burns Q&A


s10 e06

Vital Pulp Therapy

Regenerative Endodontics in Adolescents


s10 e07

Endodontic Surgery & Innovation

Surgery Photo Review & Exciting New Technology


s10 e08

Clinician Influence & Fractures

Swaying Treatment & Radicular Root Fractures


The Ruddle Show

Commercial Trailer S10

Watch Season 9


s09 e01

Moving with the Cheese & Delving Deeper

A Better Understanding of Change & File Brushing


s09 e02

The Dark Side & Post Removal

Industry Payments to Academics & Removing a Screw Post


s09 e03

3D Tomosynthesis

Special Guest Presentation by Dr. Don Tyndall


s09 e04

Controversies & Iatrogenic Events

Sharing Knowledge Pros/Cons & Type II Transportations


s09 e05

File Movement & Learning

Manual and Mechanical Options & Endoruddle Recommendation


s09 e06

AAE & Endo/Perio Considerations

Annual Meeting & Root Amp, Hemisections & Implants, Oh My!


s09 e07

Knowing the Difference & Surgery

Case Discernment & Lateral Repair


s09 e08

Fresh Perspective & Apical Divisions

Fast Healing & Irregular GPM and Cone Fit


The Ruddle Show

Commercial Trailer S09

Watch Season 8


s08 e01

Endo/Perio Considerations & Recent Article

Crestal/Furcal Defects & ProTaper Ultimate


s08 e02

WaveOne Gold

Special Guest Presentation by Dr. Julian Webber


s08 e03

Microscope Tips & Perforation Management

Q&A and Crestal & Furcal Perf Repair


s08 e04

Knowing the Difference & Calcification

Esthetic vs. Cosmetic Dentistry & Managing Calcified Canals


s08 e05

Tough Questions & Sealer-Based Obturation

The Loose Tooth & Guest Dr. Josette Camilleri


s08 e06

AAE Discussion Forum & 3D Irrigation

Trending Topics & the SLP EndoActivator


s08 e07

Working Length & Microscope Tips

Determining Accurate WL & Microscope Q&A, Part 2


s08 e08

Artificial Intelligence & Common Errors

Incorporating AI & Endo/Restorative Errors


The Ruddle Show

Commercial Trailer S08

Special Reports


special e06


As Presented at the John Ingle Endo Symposium


special e05


The Importance of Simplicity & Getting Back to Basics


special e04


Personal Interview on the Secrets to Success


special e03


The Launch of an Improved File System


special e02


The Way Forward

Watch Season 7


s07 e01

Articles & Preferred Access

Writing Projects & Ruddle’s Start-to-Finish Access


s07 e02

Patient Protocol & Post Removal

CBCT & the Post Removal System


s07 e03

Avoiding Burnout & Ledge Management

Giving New Life to Your Practice & Managing Ledges


s07 e04

Start-To-Finish Endodontics

Special Guest Presentation featuring Dr. Gary Glassman


s07 e05

Laser Disinfection & Obturation

The Lightwalker vs. EdgePRO Lasers and Q&A


s07 e06

Extra-Canal Invasive Resorption

Special Case Report by Dr. Terry Pannkuk


s07 e07

GentleWave & Microsurgery

Every Patient Considerations & Surgical Crypt Control


s07 e08

Artificial Intelligence & Endodontic Concepts

Update on AI in Dentistry and Q&A


The Ruddle Show

Commercial Trailer S07

Watch Season 6


s06 e01

Comparisons & NSRCT

Chelator vs NaOCl and Managing Type I Transportations


s06 e02

Special Guest Presentation

Dr. Marco Martignoni on Modern Restoration Techniques


s06 e03

International Community & Surgery

Breaking Language Barriers & MB Root Considerations


s06 e04

Launching Dreams

ProTaper Ultimate Q&A and Flying a Kite


s06 e05

Rising to the Challenge

Working with Family & Managing an Irregular Glide Path


s06 e06

Controversy… or Not

Is the Endodontic Triad Dead or Stuck on Semantics?


s06 e07

Endodontic Vanguard

Zoom with Dr. Sonia Chopra and ProTaper Ultimate Q&A, Part 2


s06 e08

Nonsurgical Retreatment

Carrier-Based Obturation Removal & MTA vs. Calcium Hydroxide


The Ruddle Show

Commercial Trailer S06

Watch Season 5


s05 e01

Common Endo Errors & Discipline Overlap

Apical and Lateral Blocks & Whose Job Is It?


s05 e02

Post Removal & Discounts

Post Removal with Ultrasonics & Why Discounts are Problematic


s05 e03

EndoActivator History & Technique

How the EndoActivator Came to Market & How to Use It


s05 e04


New Disinfection Technology and Q&A


s05 e05

Exploration & Disassembly

Exploratory Treatment & the Coronal Disassembly Decision Tree


s05 e06

Advancements in Gutta Percha Technology

Zoom Interview with Dr. Nathan Li


s05 e07

By Design... Culture & Surgical Flaps

Intentional Practice Culture & Effective Flap Design


s05 e08

Workspaces & Calcium Hydroxide

Ruddle Workspaces Tour & Calcium Hydroxide Q&A


s05 e09

Cognitive Dissonance

Discussion and Case Reports


s05 e10

50 Shows Special

A Tribute to The Ruddle Show’s First 5 Seasons


The Ruddle Show

Commercial Intro S05

Watch Season 4


s04 e01

Tough Questions & SINE Tips

Who Pays for Treatment if it Fails and Access Refinement


s04 e02

Endodontic Diagnosis

Assessing Case Difficulty & Clinical Findings


s04 e03

CBCT & Incorporating New Technology

Zoom with Prof. Shanon Patel and Q&A


s04 e04

Best Sealer & Best Dental Team

Kerr Pulp Canal Sealer EWT & Hiring Staff


s04 e05

Ideation & The COVID Era

Zoom with Dr. Gary Glassman and Post-Interview Discussion


s04 e06

Medications and Silver Points

Dental Medications Q&A and How to Remove Silver Points


s04 e07

Tough Questions & Choices

The Appropriate Canal Shape & Treatment Options


s04 e08

Q&A and Recently Published Articles

Glide Path/Working Length and 2 Endo Articles


s04 e09

Hot Topic with Dr. Gordon Christensen

Dr. Christensen Presents the Latest in Glass Ionomers


s04 e10

AAE Annual Meeting and Q&A

Who is Presenting & Glide Path/Working Length, Part 2


The Ruddle Show

Commercial Intro S04


The Ruddle Show

Commercial Promo S04

Watch Season 3


s03 e01

Treatment Rationale & Letters of Recommendation

Review of Why Pulps Break Down & Getting a Helpful LOR


s03 e02

Profiles in Dentistry & Gutta Percha Removal

A Closer Look at Dr. Rik van Mill & How to Remove Gutta Percha


s03 e03

Artificial Intelligence & Endo Questions

AI in Dentistry and Some Trending Questions


s03 e04

How to Stay Safe & Where to Live

A New Microscope Shield & Choosing a Dental School/Practice Location


s03 e05

3D Disinfection

Laser Disinfection and Ruddle Q&A


s03 e06

Andreasen Tribute & Krakow Study

Endodontic Trauma Case Studies & the Cost of Rescheduling


s03 e07

Ruddle Projects & Diagnostic Imaging

What Ruddle Is Working On & Interpreting Radiographs


s03 e08

Obturation & Recently Published Article

Carrier-Based Obturation & John West Article


s03 e09

Retreatment Fees & the FRS

How to Assess the Retreatment Fee & the File Removal System


s03 e10

Research Methodology and Q&A

Important Research Considerations and ProTaper Q&A


The Ruddle Show

Commercial Opener S03


The Ruddle Show

Commercial Promo S03

Watch Season 2


s02 e01


Product History, Description & Technique


s02 e02

Interview with Dr. Terry Pannkuk

Dr. Pannkuk Discusses Trends in Endodontic Education


s02 e03

3D Disinfection

GentleWave Update and Intracanal Reagents


s02 e04

GPM & Local Dental Reps

Glide Path Management & Best Utilizing Dental Reps


s02 e05

3D Disinfection & Fresh Perspective on MIE

Ultrasonic vs. Sonic Disinfection Methods and MIE Insight


s02 e06

The ProTaper Story - Part 1

ProTaper’s 20+ Year Journey as Told by the Creators, the 3 Amigos


s02 e07

The ProTaper Story - Part 2

ProTaper’s 20+ Year Journey as Told by the Creators, the 3 Amigos


s02 e08

Interview with Dr. Cherilyn Sheets

Getting to Know this Top Clinician, Educator & Researcher


s02 e09

Broken Instrument Removal

Why Files Break & the Ultrasonic Removal Option


s02 e10

3D Obturation & Technique Tips

Warm Vertical Condensation Technique & Some Helpful Pointers


The Ruddle Show

Commercial Promo S02


The Ruddle Show

Commercial Opener S02

Watch Season 1


s01 e01

An Interview with Cliff Ruddle

The Journey to Becoming “Cliff”


s01 e02

Microcracks & the Inventor's Journey

Ruddle Insights into Two Key Topics


s01 e03

Around the World Perspective

GentleWave Controversy & China Lecture Tour


s01 e04

Endodontic Access

What is the Appropriate Access Size?


s01 e05

Locating Canals & Ledge Insight

Tips for Finding Canals & the Difference Between a Ledge and an Apical Seat


s01 e06

Censorship in Dentistry

Censorship in Dentistry and Overcooked Files


s01 e07

Endodontic Diagnosis & The Implant Option

Vital Pulp Testing & Choosing Between an Implant or Root Canal


s01 e08

Emergency Scenario & Single Cone Obturation

Assessing an Emergency & Single Cone Obturation with BC Sealer


s01 e09

Quackwatch & Pot of Gold

Managing the Misguided Patient & Understanding the Business of Endo


s01 e10

Stress Management

Interview with Motivational Speaker & Life Coach, Jesse Brisendine


The Ruddle Show

Commercial Opener S01

Continue Watching


Behind-the-Scenes PODCAST Construction

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08.31.2023 Update



02.02.2023 Update



03.03.2022 Update


Happy New Year



Behind-the-Scenes Studio Construction


The Ruddle Show
Season 11

Release Date Show Get Notified
SHOW 91 - Delving Deeper Again
Financial Investing, the Tooth or Implant, Accessing & Flashing Back
SHOW 92 - Artificial Intelligence & Disassembly
Differentiating Between AI Systems & Paste Removal
SHOW 93 - The ProTaper Ultimate Slider
Special Guest Presentation by Dr. Reid Pullen
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SHOW 100
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